Democracy, Freedom, and International Relations: Insights from Yu Maochun

[00:00.000 –> 00:15.600] All right, so get ready for a deep dive today, folks, because we’re talking Taiwan and, you know, not just the usual headlines, you guys sent in some seriously interesting stuff, even a clip from a Taiwanese political talk show, which got to say, that’s a first for me. [00:15.760 –> 00:24.640] It’s amazing, though, it really shows how much people in Taiwan are plugged into what’s going on with their country, their future, everything. [00:25.040 –> 00:32.520] Well, I’m always up for a little political drama, especially when it gives us this kind of glimpse into how another democracy handles these global issues. [00:32.520 –> 00:37.360] Right. And speaking of which, one of the articles you sent over features Yu Maochun. [00:37.360 –> 00:39.400] He used to advise the U.S. State Department. [00:39.400 –> 00:41.760] Right. I’m really curious to hear his perspective on all this. [00:41.920 –> 00:45.880] Yeah, Yu Maochun is a really interesting voice to bring in, especially now, just given his background. [00:45.880 –> 00:48.880] You know, he’s been involved with both Chinese and American politics. [00:48.880 –> 00:55.160] Plus, he’s spent a lot of time really trying to get U.S. officials up to speed on China’s goals, what they’re really aiming for. [00:55.360 –> 01:03.160] But before we get too deep into U.S.-China relations, maybe we should start with that talk show clip you mentioned, get a feel for things on the ground, so to speak. [01:03.320 –> 01:13.320] Yeah, absolutely. From what I gathered, it seems like they were getting into this whole thing about identity, like how Taiwan sees itself on the world stage, which feels pretty key. [01:13.320 –> 01:25.880] Definitely. They actually open with this anecdote, kind of funny, but also kind of frustrating, about young Taiwanese people traveling abroad and constantly getting mistaken for being Chinese, leads to some awkward encounters. [01:25.880 –> 01:27.840] Oh, yeah, that really resonated with me. [01:27.840 –> 01:34.760] I mean, imagine having to constantly explain your identity, your entire country’s story every time you meet someone new. [01:35.040 –> 01:38.480] That’s that’s got to be more than just a casual misunderstanding. [01:38.600 –> 01:44.120] It is. It cuts deep, you know, and that’s exactly what Yu Maochun gets at in his article. [01:44.280 –> 01:48.560] He’s really pushing for Taiwanese citizens to own their nationality when they’re abroad. [01:48.800 –> 01:51.360] To him, it’s not just about convenience, saying, I’m from Taiwan. [01:51.680 –> 01:54.280] It’s about making a statement. It’s about identity. [01:54.560 –> 01:57.600] Yeah, no, I totally get that, especially given, well, history, right? [01:57.600 –> 02:02.240] It’s got to be tough being a small island next to a giant, like geopolitically speaking. [02:02.320 –> 02:10.640] Totally. And to really grasp where Taiwan is now, we need to rewind a bit, go back to 1971, big year, because that’s when the U.N. [02:10.640 –> 02:17.640] switched recognition from the Republic of China, which is Taiwan’s official name, by the way, to the Petals Republic of China. [02:17.640 –> 02:18.640] So mainland China. [02:19.640 –> 02:21.920] OK, so there’s a lot of historical baggage there, too. [02:21.960 –> 02:25.960] No wonder things are so sensitive when it comes to Taiwan’s place in the world. [02:26.120 –> 02:35.720] For sure. And it’s within this whole complex geopolitical landscape that Taiwan’s got to figure out its relationships with China, with the U.S., everyone, really. [02:36.240 –> 02:39.440] And you know what they’re calling their approach? Smart power. Heard of it. [02:39.760 –> 02:42.480] Oh, yeah. That phrase kept popping up in the talk show, too. [02:42.480 –> 02:47.320] Definitely caught my attention. I mean, it sounds way more effective than just, you know, flexing muscles all the time. [02:47.360 –> 02:49.160] Well, it’s definitely a different strategy. Yeah. [02:49.320 –> 02:51.280] Especially compared to how China often operates. [02:51.280 –> 02:54.240] I mean, yeah, military strength, that’s part of the equation, sure. [02:54.720 –> 02:58.640] But smart power, it’s more about strategically using everything you’ve got. [02:59.560 –> 03:03.680] Diplomacy, your economy, even cultural influence, all combined. [03:03.880 –> 03:10.320] So less about intimidation, more about, like, winning hearts and minds alongside, well, everything else. [03:10.440 –> 03:15.400] You got it. And Yu Maochun actually argues that this is where Taiwan’s really got an edge. [03:15.840 –> 03:23.840] He uses the example of China’s military provocations, you know, those military flyovers around Taiwan’s National Day to show how that kind of aggressive [03:23.880 –> 03:26.000] tactic can backfire big time. [03:26.080 –> 03:28.320] Yeah, those flyovers were all over the news. [03:28.360 –> 03:31.640] But I’m curious, how exactly does that backfire on China? [03:32.120 –> 03:34.120] On the surface, it seems pretty intimidating. [03:34.200 –> 03:35.640] I get it. Seems that way. [03:36.000 –> 03:38.080] But it usually does the opposite of what China wants. [03:38.600 –> 03:45.360] See, instead of making Taiwan back down, these shows of force, they actually end up making people even more determined for independence. [03:45.960 –> 03:49.280] Plus, it really highlights to other countries, hey, look what Taiwan’s dealing with. [03:49.320 –> 03:55.040] So it’s a huge gamble that could easily make tensions worse in the region, but not in the way China’s hoping for. [03:55.080 –> 03:58.040] Sounds like a classic example of what not to do on the world stage. [03:58.160 –> 04:04.040] You said it. And this is precisely where smart power comes in, something Taiwan seems to be getting really good at. [04:04.360 –> 04:08.080] OK, yeah, I’m definitely seeing why everyone’s talking about the smart power thing. [04:08.480 –> 04:09.920] But can we get specific? [04:09.960 –> 04:15.800] I mean, what does that actually look like in action besides, you know, not doing flyovers? [04:15.880 –> 04:21.000] Sure. Well, think about how Taiwan responded to those military provocations we were just talking about. [04:21.600 –> 04:29.960] Instead of getting into this tit for tat escalation, which honestly could have been really bad, they used those incidents to their advantage. [04:30.320 –> 04:33.600] Like, look at what we’re dealing with here, but we’re not going to stoop to that level. [04:33.640 –> 04:40.920] Exactly. It puts China’s aggression in the spotlight for the whole world to see, but without Taiwan resorting to force themselves. [04:41.520 –> 04:43.520] And honestly, it seems to be working. [04:43.720 –> 04:47.880] Taiwan has been really strategic, especially using their economic power. [04:48.240 –> 04:51.960] I mean, tech sector, especially right to make some powerful friends globally. [04:52.000 –> 04:53.400] Right. And it’s not just tech. [04:53.480 –> 04:58.880] I mean, yeah, Taiwan’s a big deal when it comes to global supply chains, which gives them some leverage for sure. [04:59.360 –> 05:05.280] But they’re also known for their democracy, their stance on human rights, which is, you know, quite a contrast to China. [05:05.720 –> 05:07.720] That’s got to carry some weight internationally, don’t you think? [05:08.040 –> 05:09.640] Absolutely. Those values matter. [05:09.680 –> 05:13.120] That’s like soft power 101, especially among democratic countries. [05:13.320 –> 05:16.240] It’s about the long game and Taiwan seems to be playing it really well. [05:16.320 –> 05:18.160] It’s definitely a different strategy, that’s for sure. [05:18.840 –> 05:23.960] But speaking of playing well, or maybe not so well, can we talk about that talk show anecdote? [05:24.000 –> 05:28.960] You know, the one with the politician, the toilet and an orange. [05:29.040 –> 05:30.440] Oh, yeah, that’s a good one. [05:30.480 –> 05:39.480] All right. So for those of us who haven’t had the pleasure of late night Taiwanese political talk shows, what exactly went down? [05:39.560 –> 05:50.640] OK, so in a nutshell, right, you’ve got this pretty well-known Taiwanese politician and he decides who knows why to tell a story about being on the toilet like crazy early in the morning. [05:50.960 –> 05:55.000] And somehow he stumbles across some, shall we say, incriminating evidence. [05:55.040 –> 05:56.840] OK, already hooked. What kind of evidence? [05:56.880 –> 05:57.680] Don’t leave me hanging. [05:57.760 –> 05:58.760] That’s where it gets even better. [05:58.800 –> 06:04.600] This evidence, it eventually leads to the downfall of another politician, someone with a very interesting nickname, Orange. [06:05.280 –> 06:07.680] Wait, hold on. Orange, as in the fruit. [06:07.960 –> 06:11.320] Yeah, yeah. Orange, as in the fruit. [06:11.800 –> 06:18.400] And you know what? Even after looking into all this, the connection between the politician and citrus fruit remains a total mystery. [06:18.480 –> 06:20.840] OK, now I have to know more about this orange politician. [06:21.000 –> 06:22.880] Was that like a common nickname? [06:23.400 –> 06:27.200] Are oranges some kind of political symbol in Taiwan that I should know about? [06:27.240 –> 06:28.640] Honestly, I wish I knew. [06:28.680 –> 06:30.720] The talk show host, they never explained it. [06:30.760 –> 06:33.600] Just adds to the whole ridiculousness of the situation. [06:33.640 –> 06:35.800] This is gold. So is this like orange gate? [06:35.880 –> 06:37.720] Did this bring the whole government down? [06:38.360 –> 06:43.160] Not exactly. The actual scandal, it wasn’t about oranges or bathrooms, really. [06:43.520 –> 06:47.480] It was about some shady stuff this orange politician was mixed up in. [06:47.600 –> 06:53.000] Remember how the first guy, the one on the toilet, he connected his discovery to orange biting the dust. [06:53.160 –> 06:57.080] Right, right. I admit, I got a little sidetracked by the whole bathroom orange thing. [06:57.360 –> 07:01.600] But besides the pure entertainment value, what’s the point of this story? [07:01.640 –> 07:03.080] What were they getting out on the talk show? [07:03.320 –> 07:09.000] Well, amidst the catchy music and bizarre stories, the host was making a point about Taiwan’s political scene. [07:09.120 –> 07:10.760] She called it a vibrant democracy. [07:10.920 –> 07:17.240] OK, so she’s using this whole orange scandal, which is amazing, by the way, to actually highlight a positive. [07:17.280 –> 07:21.600] Exactly. This whole thing, this politician getting called out, it all started online. [07:21.880 –> 07:28.600] Regular citizens digging through public records, getting people talking, holding their leaders accountable, you know, that whole thing. [07:28.600 –> 07:37.880] So even with the late night toilet stories and the mystery fruit nicknames, it sounds like Taiwan has a pretty strong sense of like citizen engagement. [07:37.880 –> 07:39.160] People are paying attention. [07:39.200 –> 07:43.800] Exactly. And that’s that’s a key part of what makes Taiwan’s democracy work. [07:44.000 –> 07:45.960] Definitely something to be admired, that’s for sure. [07:46.000 –> 07:56.520] Totally agree. OK, so we’ve got Taiwan standing strong on the world stage with this smart power strategy, citizens keeping their leaders in check, even the ones nicknamed after fruit. [07:57.160 –> 07:58.800] Seems like there’s some positive momentum. [07:59.320 –> 08:00.720] But what about the bigger picture? [08:00.760 –> 08:02.880] What about those geopolitical challenges? [08:02.880 –> 08:08.200] How does Yu Maochun see those playing out, especially with Taiwan right in the middle of it all? [08:08.560 –> 08:12.960] Well, that’s where things get really interesting, because Yu Maochun, having worked in U.S. [08:12.960 –> 08:16.320] foreign policy at the highest levels, he’s got this whole other angle. [08:16.720 –> 08:22.120] He says the key is understanding what drives both American and Chinese foreign policy. [08:22.640 –> 08:24.520] What are the core principles at play? [08:24.920 –> 08:29.560] And that requires getting into how each country sees the world, their whole world view. [08:29.720 –> 08:33.000] So really getting those core principles, like you said, for both the U.S. [08:33.000 –> 08:35.520] and China, especially with Taiwan right in the thick of it. [08:35.800 –> 08:38.280] Exactly. And Yu Maochun’s big on this. [08:38.720 –> 08:41.320] It’s not just the diplomacy stuff, the surface level. [08:41.640 –> 08:44.600] It’s about those deeper motivations, figuring those out. [08:44.680 –> 08:46.960] And you were saying he had this whole different approach, right? [08:46.960 –> 08:49.080] Like he really wanted to change how U.S. [08:49.080 –> 08:52.640] officials thought about China, not just what policies to make. [08:52.760 –> 08:54.920] Yeah, he wasn’t afraid to shake things up a bit. [08:55.440 –> 08:58.680] When he was at the State Department, he organized these seminars. [08:59.120 –> 09:04.120] And the goal was to help officials really grasp how complex China is. [09:04.160 –> 09:06.880] It wasn’t about just like, here’s the policy, follow it. [09:06.880 –> 09:08.880] It was about getting people to think differently. [09:08.880 –> 09:14.000] So like China 101, but for, you know, top level officials, was it all lectures and stuff? [09:14.120 –> 09:16.560] No, actually, it was way more engaging than that. [09:16.680 –> 09:20.600] He really encouraged debate, getting people talking and he had them read [09:20.880 –> 09:24.840] writings from important Chinese figures, you know, throughout history. [09:25.080 –> 09:29.480] It was about understanding the bigger picture, the context, history, philosophy, [09:29.680 –> 09:31.680] even their strategic thinking. [09:31.680 –> 09:34.640] Because to Yu Maochun, that’s how you build a foreign policy [09:34.640 –> 09:37.600] that actually works by understanding where the other side’s coming from. [09:37.640 –> 09:40.720] Like that saying, right? Know your enemy and know yourself. [09:40.880 –> 09:41.840] Exactly. Yeah. [09:41.840 –> 09:45.280] But I think for Yu Maochun, it’s more about understanding than just knowing. [09:45.640 –> 09:46.720] It’s deeper than that. [09:46.720 –> 09:50.480] Totally. So this first principles approach, he’s all about [09:50.480 –> 09:53.440] didn’t he have that anecdote about President Trump that really illustrated this? [09:53.440 –> 09:54.520] Oh, you remember that? [09:54.520 –> 09:58.200] Yeah, the phone call right after Trump won the election with Tsai Ing-wen. [09:58.200 –> 10:00.760] Right. That caused a bit of a stir, didn’t it? Total frenzy. [10:00.760 –> 10:03.400] Yeah. So Tsai Ing-wen calls to congratulate Trump. [10:03.720 –> 10:07.600] And suddenly everyone’s freaking out, telling Trump, don’t take the call. [10:07.600 –> 10:08.440] You can’t talk to her. [10:08.440 –> 10:10.840] The one China policy, the whole thing, you know. [10:10.880 –> 10:14.200] Right. Because that’s the whole thing where essentially the U.S. [10:14.200 –> 10:18.960] acknowledges China’s claim to Taiwan, but doesn’t actually say whether they agree or not. [10:19.000 –> 10:21.120] It’s delicate, to say the least. [10:21.120 –> 10:23.200] Exactly. A diplomatic tightrope walk. [10:23.200 –> 10:28.120] Yeah. But Trump being Trump, he wasn’t known for backing down from a challenge. [10:28.120 –> 10:30.000] The understatement of the century. Right. [10:30.200 –> 10:34.480] So he pushes back on his advisors and he asked this really simple question. [10:34.920 –> 10:38.240] If the president of a democracy wants to call and congratulate [10:38.240 –> 10:42.040] another democratically elected president, why shouldn’t I pick up the phone? [10:42.080 –> 10:44.760] OK, I got to admit, that’s a pretty good point when you put it like that. [10:44.760 –> 10:47.640] Right. Cuts through all the noise and gets to the heart of the matter. [10:47.680 –> 10:49.960] And to You Maochun, that’s exactly it. [10:50.200 –> 10:52.360] Democratic leaders should be able to talk. [10:52.880 –> 10:54.960] That’s a principle worth defending. [10:54.960 –> 10:56.520] And this is what he’s advocating for. [10:56.520 –> 11:00.160] Overall foreign policy that’s based on values, on principles, [11:00.320 –> 11:01.800] not just political maneuvering. [11:01.800 –> 11:05.880] Having the guts to stand up for something, even when it makes people uncomfortable. [11:06.240 –> 11:09.960] It’s interesting, though, when it comes to Taiwan specifically, [11:10.360 –> 11:14.440] You Maochun seems to think they’ve got a bigger role to play in the world [11:14.560 –> 11:16.440] beyond just their own interests. [11:16.440 –> 11:17.520] Oh, absolutely. [11:17.520 –> 11:21.280] He actually challenges Taiwan to think about how they can contribute [11:21.280 –> 11:25.400] to global freedom alongside their allies, which is a big ask. [11:25.760 –> 11:29.080] It is a big ask, especially considering, well, everything. [11:29.080 –> 11:30.320] What does that even look like? [11:30.320 –> 11:33.760] You know, how can Taiwan, a relatively small island [11:33.760 –> 11:37.000] with their own set of problems, actually make a difference globally? [11:37.040 –> 11:38.720] That’s the question, isn’t it? [11:38.720 –> 11:41.160] But that’s really what You Maochun is getting at here. [11:41.440 –> 11:45.240] He sees Taiwan, even with the diplomatic tightrope they walk, [11:45.680 –> 11:49.800] as this example of innovation, of resilience, of democratic values. [11:50.280 –> 11:54.040] And those are things that can have an impact way beyond Taiwan itself. [11:54.040 –> 11:56.840] So instead of just focusing on surviving, he’s saying Taiwan [11:56.840 –> 11:58.680] could thrive and even be a leader. [11:58.680 –> 12:00.840] I like it, but give me something concrete. [12:00.840 –> 12:03.400] What would that global contribution look like in reality? [12:03.640 –> 12:06.360] Well, let’s start with what we’ve already touched on technology. [12:07.280 –> 12:09.600] Taiwan is essential to how the world runs, [12:09.600 –> 12:12.600] especially when it comes to those semiconductor chips, right? [12:12.600 –> 12:14.840] Right. The things that make our phones and computers [12:14.840 –> 12:17.840] and, well, everything actually work. Exactly. [12:17.960 –> 12:20.560] And Taiwan, they can play a huge role here, [12:20.800 –> 12:23.200] championing open and secure supply chains, [12:23.400 –> 12:26.880] making sure these technologies aren’t being used against democracies. [12:27.120 –> 12:29.680] It’s about making sure innovation is used for good. [12:29.760 –> 12:32.560] So it’s bigger than just we make the best chips, come get them. [12:32.560 –> 12:35.280] It’s about making sure that tech is used responsibly, [12:35.280 –> 12:38.080] not being used to hurt democracies themselves. You got it. [12:38.480 –> 12:40.600] And it’s not just about hardware either. Yeah. [12:40.640 –> 12:44.000] Taiwan’s cybersecurity expertise is top notch [12:44.360 –> 12:45.560] because think about it. [12:45.560 –> 12:49.840] They’re constantly dealing with disinformation campaigns, cyberattacks from China. [12:50.080 –> 12:51.120] They’re on the front lines. [12:51.120 –> 12:53.080] So they’ve had to learn how to defend themselves [12:53.080 –> 12:55.760] in a way that most countries haven’t. Right. Exactly. [12:55.760 –> 12:58.560] And they could take that knowledge, those strategies and share it, [12:58.920 –> 13:01.440] help other democracies that are facing similar threats. [13:01.640 –> 13:05.560] It’s almost like a global cyber security task force [13:05.800 –> 13:08.240] sharing what works, how to protect themselves. [13:08.240 –> 13:09.240] Now you’re getting it. [13:09.240 –> 13:12.280] And we haven’t even gotten to, I think, the most powerful part of this whole thing. [13:12.440 –> 13:14.280] OK, now you’ve got me on the edge of my seat. [13:14.280 –> 13:19.600] What else does Taiwan bring to the table in this, you know, global fight for freedom? [13:19.600 –> 13:23.760] OK, I’ve got to know what’s this last piece when it comes to Taiwan’s role, [13:23.760 –> 13:26.800] you know, promoting freedom globally? What am I missing? [13:26.840 –> 13:29.000] Well, think about this with the power of culture. [13:29.000 –> 13:32.560] Taiwan’s got a huge film industry, music scene, their art and literature. [13:32.560 –> 13:33.760] It’s amazing. [13:33.760 –> 13:37.160] And those things, they reach people in a different way. [13:37.160 –> 13:39.960] It’s soft power, but it’s real. It’s true. [13:39.960 –> 13:41.080] We don’t always think about it. [13:41.080 –> 13:44.760] But sharing those experiences, it connects us, right? [13:44.760 –> 13:47.640] Bypasses the whole political thing and gets to something more human. [13:47.640 –> 13:51.800] 100 percent. So imagine this Taiwan sharing their story, [13:51.800 –> 13:53.720] their perspective with the whole world. [13:53.720 –> 13:58.320] Film festivals, cultural exchanges, working with artists from other places is huge. [13:58.520 –> 14:01.040] It helps people understand Taiwan in a deeper way. [14:01.200 –> 14:04.440] Instead of just reading the headlines, it’s like experiencing Taiwan firsthand, [14:04.440 –> 14:06.480] showing the world this is what we’re about. [14:06.480 –> 14:09.440] This is what democracy looks like for us. Exactly. [14:09.640 –> 14:11.880] And those connections, they matter. [14:12.000 –> 14:16.840] It builds relationships based on like actual respect, shared interests, [14:16.840 –> 14:19.280] not just we need you for this one thing. [14:19.320 –> 14:21.320] OK, I’m with you. This is inspiring and all. [14:21.320 –> 14:25.560] But realistically, how does Taiwan actually do all of this? [14:25.560 –> 14:28.960] Right, because it takes more than just good vibes and good ideas. [14:29.400 –> 14:30.640] Got to have a plan. [14:30.640 –> 14:32.680] So where do they even start? [14:32.680 –> 14:35.480] First things first, they got to get those alliances strong, [14:35.480 –> 14:38.680] the ones they have, making them stronger and then building new ones. [14:39.080 –> 14:42.480] Countries that share those values, democracy, human rights, that whole thing. [14:42.480 –> 14:46.480] So like the US, Japan, Australia, they’re already on board, [14:46.480 –> 14:49.600] but got to branch out, make new friends. [14:49.640 –> 14:51.520] It’s like building a team, right? [14:51.520 –> 14:55.960] A united front against, well, anyone trying to mess with the way things work globally. [14:56.240 –> 14:58.240] And it’s not just military stuff either. [14:58.240 –> 15:00.720] Taiwan’s got economic power, too, and they can use that. [15:00.840 –> 15:03.600] Yeah, we talked about the whole tech supply chain thing, the semiconductors, [15:03.600 –> 15:05.560] that gives them leverage for sure. Exactly. [15:05.560 –> 15:08.080] Work with other countries, build those supply chains [15:08.080 –> 15:11.200] so they’re more resilient, less reliant on, say, China [15:11.760 –> 15:13.960] and a boost Taiwan’s economy at the same time. [15:13.960 –> 15:15.560] Everybody wins. Smart. [15:15.560 –> 15:18.000] OK, what about Taiwan’s own democracy, though? [15:18.000 –> 15:19.760] How does that fit into this? [15:19.760 –> 15:22.120] That’s where things get really interesting. [15:22.120 –> 15:25.080] They can be this example, a model for other places, [15:25.320 –> 15:27.400] figuring out this whole democracy thing. [15:27.400 –> 15:28.960] I mean, think about it. [15:28.960 –> 15:31.680] They’ve dealt with pressure from China for decades, [15:32.240 –> 15:34.320] but they still built a system that works. [15:34.320 –> 15:37.360] People are engaged. They care. That’s huge. [15:37.360 –> 15:40.040] And they did it all with, you know, the threat of invasion [15:40.040 –> 15:42.400] hanging over their heads, which is incredible. It is. [15:42.600 –> 15:43.840] So share that knowledge. [15:43.840 –> 15:46.640] Teach other democracies what they’ve learned, especially the ones [15:46.640 –> 15:47.920] going through similar stuff. [15:47.920 –> 15:51.040] Help them build up their own systems, run elections, whatever they need. [15:51.120 –> 15:52.520] Be that example, right? [15:52.520 –> 15:55.240] Show the world this works. Democracy works. [15:55.520 –> 15:58.040] Yeah, it’s hard. It’s messy, but it’s worth it. [15:58.080 –> 15:59.840] Exactly. Give people hope. [15:59.840 –> 16:03.120] Inspire them to fight for what they believe in, even when it’s tough. [16:03.160 –> 16:04.360] This has been amazing. [16:04.360 –> 16:06.600] Seriously, we went from late night toilet humor [16:06.600 –> 16:08.840] to talking about Taiwan leading the world. [16:09.000 –> 16:11.160] You and these sources, I swear I know, right? [16:11.600 –> 16:15.400] But it just goes to show you Taiwan, even as this small island [16:15.600 –> 16:19.520] facing these huge challenges, they can have a real impact, make a difference. [16:19.800 –> 16:23.760] Totally. It reminds you that no matter who you are, where you are, [16:24.040 –> 16:27.360] you can stand up for what you believe in, make the world a little better. [16:27.800 –> 16:29.160] It’s powerful stuff. [16:29.160 –> 16:30.560] Could not have said it better myself. [16:31.880 –> 16:34.000] I think that’s the perfect note to end on, don’t you? [16:34.560 –> 16:36.480] Freedom. It’s a fight for everyone. [16:36.480 –> 16:40.200] And Taiwan’s right there on the front lines leading the way. Absolutely. [16:40.720 –> 16:42.880] Thanks for taking this deep dive with us, everyone. [16:42.880 –> 16:45.840] Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, [16:45.840 –> 16:48.600] and most importantly, keep asking the big questions.